Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/abduct/abduc078.txt

Text File | 1993-07-25 | 21KB | 467 lines

                          Abduction Digest, Number 47

                          Tuesday, February 11th 1992

     (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service.  All Rights Reserved.

Today's Topics:

                                   Abductions
                                     Answers
                                Answers continued
                                   Abductions
                              Re: Premature Births
                                    Breakdown
                                   Abductions
                                  Your Wildcat!
                               Abduction Research

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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 3 Feb 92 07:34:52 GMT


    I have recently written in my new book that to the best of my knowledge all
abductees have been physically not in place during the  abduction.  This
statement seems rather sweeping but I feel that it is  accurate.  The Puddy
case is interesting but quite obviously the event  that you describe is not an
abduction.  Mrs Puddy might indeed be an  abductee (the sightings that she had
earlier experienced might be  evidence of this) but the incident in the car has
all the earmarks of  either being a "channeled" episode or a flashback to a
previous event, or  evidence of mental instability.  Whereas on the surface it
might appear  that this has all the hallmarks of an apparent abduction, in fact
the  description that she gave of the entity, the entity's movements, the
entity's motivations, and so forth, would be immediately suspicious  to me. Her
description of the inside of a UFO might well have been  picked up either from
a previous abduction or from some outside  conventional source.  The only way
that one can find out these things  with a reasonable degree of assurance is by
doing hypnosis with somebody who thoroughly understands the abduction
phenomenon so that the hypnotist  and/or researcher can tell when she veers off
what is presently known  about abductions.  I hope that my book will help in
that endeavor.
     All of this goes back to the problem that Jim Speiser brought up about
what is to be believed in conscious recollections of unusual events. People
will confabulate, they will remember things wrongly, they will unconsciously
elaborate and add material, they will slip into  "channeling," and they will
exhibit evidence of mental abberations.   Separating the wheat from the chaff
is a difficult task.  But the most  important thing to understand is that there
is wheat.  Dwelling on the  chaff is like spending all of one's time ruminating
about UFO sightings  that are identified!  It was the sightings that could not
be identified  that brought us all here.
     It is true that we only have a few cases of uninvolved bystanders
witnessing an abduction of another person.  This situation is involved  with
the technology employed for carrying out the abduction.  Budd  Hopkins is at
present working on a sensational case that does include  bystanders witnessing
the abduction.  He will probably write a book about  it and it will go a very
long way towards putting this controversy to  rest.  The IUR will also publish
an article of mine addressing the issue.
     Budd and I have many cases in which people witness others being  abducted
and are not abducted themselves.  They are often "switched off"  so that they
can do nothing about it and their accounts are usually, but  not always,
recovered with the use of hypnosis.  We also have many cases  in which several
people are abducted at once and they can independently  confirm their
experiences without knowing that their fellow abductees  have also remembered
the event.
     Incidentally, Jenny Randles talks about the Sunderland case but makes  no
reference to her mother seeing her in bed during a supposed abduction.
 Keep up the good work!
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1

--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: Answers
Date: 4 Feb 92 06:49:27 GMT


    Sheldon, I was not aware of your long messages on file, and I only recently
read them.  I will try to answer some of your queries as best I  can, but you
must remember that I certainly do not have all the answers  to all questions.
     Yes, it is possible that those people who are abducted and who ae  alone
and who are not seen by others might in some way still be  physically in place
during the abduction.  This is something that we  cannot be sure of.  In the
same way we cannot be sure that they did not  fly to Mars during their
abduction.  We cannot be sure that they did not  meet with President Bush and
then both forgot the incident. Please pardon  the humor, but we cannot prove a
negative.  All the evidence that we have  points to the fact that people are
not physically in place during an  abduction and none of the evidence we have
points to their being in  place (the Puddy case not withstanding--see my
remarks to Keith  Basterfield).
     Could two, three, four or more people have a shared fantasy inwhich  they
all see each other being abducted and then relate the same events in  minute
detail?  Yes, I suppose anything is possible.  Is there any  evidence for this?
Not a shred.  In fact even though Benjamin Simon  suggested the Hills were
involved with a shared fantasy, or folie a deux,  there was also no evidence
for this diagnosis other than what he thought.   You must remember that shared
fantasies in rich, minute, extraordinary  detail and length are so rare that
they are practically nonexistent  and most psychiatrists will never see a case
of it.

 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1

--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: Answers continued
Date: 4 Feb 92 07:19:27 GMT


    Sorry I pressed the wrong buttons and inadvertently saved the message  in
mid-word.
   Do people who see others being abducted associate with them  afterwards?
Usually that is true.  In fact many of the episodes do not  come to light until
a very long time after the event.  Are they in  collusion to promote a hoax? I
guess it's possible, one cannot prove a  negative and therefore we will never
be able to prove that it did not  happen.  Is there any evidence for this?  Not
a shred.  Did they just  associate together and therefore pick up the stories
either consciously  or unconsciously?  I suppose that this is also possible,
but we have once  again found no evidence for it whatsoever.
     You mention that the data presented that you have read seems to suggest
that the abduction phenomenon is internally generated in greater numbers than
what I and my colleagues say.  The only thing that I can say  to that is that
in my research and in Budd Hopkins', the idea that  abductions are internally
generated has been carefully considered and  rejected as not fitting the
evidence as we have found it in our studies.  John Mack, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard University, shares our views and is at a loss to explain
how these accounts could possibly be internally generated given the knowledge
that we have about the human  mind and about the abduction phenomenon.  I have
tried to address myself to these points in my book (perhaps not as successfully
as I should  have).

     How are memories stored in the mind?  I used the word "mind" on purpose
because I do not know the physiological mechanism for the  storage of memories
in the brain.  In fact, neurologists are just  beginning to make some headway
in this area.  Memory is not well  understood even in the most normal of
situations and I could not hope to  understand how abduction memories
physiologically differ.  The best that  I can do is to describe the process of
recollection and try to draw  analogies to best make it understood.  The best
way I can put it is that  the memories are "stored" in an "area of the mind"
that is not amenable  to "normal" recall.
   Does abuse cause abductions?  There is not a shred of evidence to  support
this contention.  It does not seem to matter whether people have  been abused
or not.  Are there more people abused who are abductees than  not?  To the best
of my abilities to estimate, the answer is no.  Unfortunately I have not
conducted a scientific poll to find out for  sure.  Of course, since science
cannot prove a negative, we can never be  absolutely sure that abductees were
not abused even though they may have  absolutely no awareness of it whatsoever.
 The problem here is that the  abduction phenomenon itself constitutes a form
of physical, emotional,  and sexual abuse.  How does one differentiate this
type of abuse from the  more common variety?  Now we are involved with the
complexity of studying  the abduction phenomenon and its effects on the
victims.  I have talked a  little bit about this in a piece that I wrote for
the Journal of UFO  Studies which is due out shortly (actually I am not sure
whether Mike  Swords is going to run my article--we'll see).
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1

--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 4 Feb 92 14:03:00 GMT

David,

Recently, Budd Hopkins was in Denver for a series of lectures on abduction
research.  He was a very captive guest and the people coming to the lecture
enjoyed him immensely.

I am curious on a couple of points:

1)  I have heard that there are "occult-" related incidents that usually
follow an alleged abduction experience.  An example is poltergeist activity,
heightened psychic perception, etc.  How many of your studies does this occur
in?  Have you found any type of patterns that would link a person's interest
or activities in such matters relevant to the experience?

2)  CUFOS has just produced a very good video, 'Contact UFO:  Alien
Abductions,' in which they produce statistics concerning data gleaned from
their abduction research.  In the video, they state that a certain percentage
of abduction experiences involve torture.  What does this mean to your
research?

3)  Do you feel that the related experience is an accurate rendition of what
actually happens or do you feel that the recalled memory may be some type of
programmed memory, actually hiding the true experience?

Thanks for your time.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Steve Stelter)
Subject: Re: Premature Births
Date: 8 Feb 92 02:50:00 GMT


 I agree with you on the fact that some of the abductions could be memories
of seeing the doctors when being born, or possibly memories of other times
when the abducties might have been hospitalised for whatever reason. I myself
have been in the hospital twice and every now and again I wake up with same
recurring nightmare of people in blue standing around me doing whatever it
is they are doing. Believe me, it's a terrifying experiance. I'm not saying
that abductions do occur, but the majority of them are probobly just memories
of a hospital stay.

--
Steve Stelter - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Breakdown
Date: 9 Feb 92 05:31:00 GMT


Due to a technical problem, we have lost some of the messages from
Paranet when I polled last Thursday, February 6. If anybody has sent
messages to Bill Chalker, Keith Basterfield (or myself) since
Saturday, February 1, would you kindly send them again. This is just
in case you have replied to some of our messages or have any queries.
We have had a few hiccups in transmission during the past two weeks.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards from "Down Under",

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David.Jacobs)
Subject: Abductions
Date: 8 Feb 92 06:31:42 GMT


    Mike, abductees frequently report poltergeist or relaed activity
that  happens to them.   When this has been reported to me and I have
 investigated it through hypnosis, the poltergeist activity
invariably  turns out to be abduction related events.  For example,
one man with whom  I had worked for over a year reported a strange
expereince in his  kitchen.  He was making rice in an electric rice
maker and instead of it  being done in the normal half-hour, it only
took two minutes.  His "take"  on the subject was that it was "them"
either sending him a "message" or  playing a "joke" on him, or it was
a sort of miraculous situation, which  in his world view, was just as
possible.  We did a session on the rice  incident and what had
happened was that he was in his kitchen making  rice, an abduction
occurred, and he was returned an hour later.  He had  completely
forgotten about the abduction, collapsed the two ends of it  and
"voila" the rice was cooked in two minutes.  With abductees I have
yet to see strange episodes not related in some way to the abduction
phenomenon.
     You also ask about the abduction video.  I have not seen the
video  nor was I consulted about it so I have no idea what is in it.
The  question of torture is a difficult one.  It depends on what you
mean by  that term.  If you mean the deliberate and malicious
infliction of bodily  and/or mental pain upon someone to elicit
information of some kind, then  the answer is no, it is not part of
the abduction scenario.  If you mean the  deliberate, but not
malicious, infliction of pain for purposes that are  obviously
fulfilling some sort of physiological or mental agenda, then  they
answer is yes, that does occur from time to time.  If you mean that
the abductees consider their situations to be torturous--that is to
say  unendurable because of the trauma inflicted by the entire
predicament  that they find themselves in, then the answer is
definitely yes.
     Mike you might also want to check out some of my previous
messages  regarding the reliability of hypnosis and consciously
recalled memories.   It is very common for people to "recall" events
that did not happen.  It  might be because that is the way they chose
to interpret the events, it  might be because they have mixed up
dream material in the events, or it  might be because specific and
detailed images have been placed in their  minds which is remembered
as "reality."
     The more you get into abduction research, the more you realize
how  complicated and subtle it is.
     Hope you liked Budd's presentation.  I assume that he laid to
rest  the idea that he wrote what the World Weekly News said he wrote.
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.1

--
David
Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Sue Widemark)
Subject: Your Wildcat!
Date: 8 Feb 92 22:45:00 GMT

>     I Agreed!  There are other places to discuss that matter.  I
>too have a a Wildcat! board with a large religious discussion area.
>You too, of course,
>are more than welcome to call and join in conversation.

Gif me the number and I will gladly call!

{Sue}
{Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400}

--
Sue Widemark - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Abduction Research
Date: 10 Feb 92 00:51:01 GMT


In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <05-Feb-92 00:49>
David Jacobs wrote:

DJ> Yes, it is possible that those people who are abducted and who
DJ> are alone and who are not seen by others might in some way
DJ> still be physically in place during the abduction. This is
DJ> something that we cannot be sure of.

When you state "might in some way still be physically in place
during the abduction", what exactly do you mean by "some way"? You
seem to be implying that perhaps the abductee is simultaneously in
more than one locale. Am I interpreting this accurately?

Also, through your observations, what are the approximate
percentages of abductions that ARE witnessed by non-participants
vs. those that are singular, unobserved events?

DJ> All the evidence that we have points to the fact that people
DJ> are not physically in place during an abduction and none of the
DJ> evidence we have points to their being in place (the Puddy case
DJ> not withstanding--see my remarks to Keith Basterfield).

I shall have to read of this evidence in your new book, and
hopefully, be convinced of its validity. I always thought that a
great many cases could not really be proven either way, due to a
lack of witnesses.

DJ> The only thing that I can say to that is that in my research
DJ> and in Budd Hopkins', the idea that abductions are internally
DJ> generated has been carefully considered and rejected as not
DJ> fitting the evidence as we have found it in our studies. John
DJ> Mack, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University, shares
DJ> our views and is at a loss to explain how these accounts could
DJ> possibly be internally generated given the knowledge that we
DJ> have about the human mind and about the abduction phenomenon.

I understand and agree to a limited extent. For example, PTSD seems
to be generated *only* through an external event, and many, but not
all abductees appear to be suffering from it. We must all remain
open to the possibility that abductions are occurring on at least
two levels. One being capable of explanation though more mundane
psychological methods, the second being resistant to our attack
with conventional approaches. The latter is of course the crux of
this conference, but the former is really of no less significance.
If I am interpreting you correctly, virtually every abductee that
has made themselves available to you, Hopkins, et al, has shown no
sign of psychological deviation from traditionally accepted values,
that could possibly account for their abduction experience. If
true, that exceedingly high degree of "normality" amongst your
sampling would in itself make that population segment "abnormal",
since a certain degree of statistical deviation would be
anticipated.

DJ> The problem here is that the abduction phenomenon itself
DJ> constitutes a form of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.
DJ> How does one differentiate this type of abuse from the more
DJ> common variety?

Good point... and an even better question. Obviously, we have only
begun to scratch the surface of this mystery. A great deal more
contemplation of the observed data, and continued serious, ongoing
investigation is necessary to fully assess what we are confronted
with.

Again David, I look forward to reading _Secret Life_, which I
understand will be on the shelf in Chicago by the end of this week.
Hopefully, your undertaking will prompt other professionals to
enter into the abduction realm, advancing our knowledge and
understanding of this most bewildering event.

Take care,

Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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